The Twin Cities’ Best-Kept Hoops Secret (And How to Catch It Before It’s Gone)

In this episode of the Splash City Basketball Podcast, host Steve Hartman sits down with former Columbia Heights and North Dakota State player, and current St. Anthony assistant coach and Twin Cities Pro-Am team sponsor, Matt Kourouma. 

Matt shares his firsthand experiences from NBA Summer League in Las Vegas, including a look at the premiere of the Hoop State documentary featuring Columbia Heights alum Terrence Brown. He reflects on his journey from Minnesota high school hoops to playing against Gonzaga in the NCAA Tournament at NDSU under Dave Richman, and breaks down what it takes to build a competitive roster in the Twin Cities Pro-Am with Sidiki Capital. 

Plus, Steve and Matt dive into the rapidly evolving landscape of college NIL, the financial realities facing modern student-athletes, and the core coaching philosophies Matt passes along to the next generation of Minnesota hoopers. 

In this episode, we cover:

• NBA Summer League, the film festival, and regional talent storytelling 
• Lessons learned playing at NDSU and under Coach Dave Richman 
• Behind the scenes of sponsoring a team in the Twin Cities Pro-Am 
• The practical realities of NIL, player movement, and contract structures 
• The upcoming Twin Cities Pro-Am Youth Night details 

Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon or YouTube. 

Follow Splash City Basketball Podcast on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Bluesky. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Back in him, back in them, back again.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome everyone to the Splash City Basketball Podcast, your home for everything hoops in the land of 10,000 likes. I'm your host, Steve Hartman. Excited for today's episode. I got Matt Karuma, a Columbia Heights grad, player at North Dakota State. Currently, he is sponsoring a team in the Twin Cities Pro Am, Sadiqi Capital, and uh excited to talk to him about that, about the Pro Am, about his journey as a player, uh, about coaching at St. Anthony High School. Um, lots of great insights from Matt, super fun conversation, uh, even some uh fun stories about uh players, trash talkers, Coach Dave Richmond from NDSU, all that kind of stuff uh ahead. If you are enjoying the podcast, or if this is your first time, follow us or subscribe wherever you get your podcast, like Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and give us a follow on social media. I'd love to hear from you, love for uh you to provide thoughts, ideas, uh funny quips, uh critiques, whatever you want. Uh I'm here to serve the basketball community and to talk all the hoops that matter to Minnesotans. So, with that, let's get into my conversation with Matt Karuma. I'm extremely excited for today's phenomenal guest, a guy who has seen the game from every angle possible, I think. Uh Columbia Heights High School to playing uh at NDSU against Gonzaga and March Madness. Now as a high school coach and manager of a Twin Cities Pro Am team, along with the day job, the regular job. Uh joining me today is Matt Karuma. Thanks for joining, Matt. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Awesome. No, happy to be here, and thanks for having me, Steve. I'm excited to kind of dig in a little bit and um yeah, provide any insight I can.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah, well, I think you'll have a lot. Uh, there's a lot of topics, a lot of different ways we could go. Um, I want to start though. Uh, you were just out at NBA Summer League. I was just out there. Um, how was that experience? And and you know, what what did you take away from being out in Vegas for a few days?

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Sure. No, uh, Summer League was awesome. It was actually my first time going to Summer League. I I tried to get out there last year and um scheduling-wise couldn't make it with the Pro Am and some of the other things we had going on. But um super awesome to be out there and kind of see it seems like you know, those games and like that environment, it's like just about basketball, and it's really cool to experience that. And um, the other reason we're down there is there's uh they have a Summer League film festival where filmmakers can submit their sports-based um content. Uh and then there's a selection committee that chooses which ones are going to premiere at Summer League. So Terrence Brown, an athlete from m Columbia Heights, also actually, um, his documentary, Hoop State, the story of Terence Brown, um, uh with Gabe, who who was the filmmaker on it, was selected. Um, so he did the premiere down there, and it was really cool to kind of see that you know the the story storytelling side of basketball takes center stage at Summer League. Um so really cool event. They did a really good job putting that on. I'm excited to see what what Gabe and Terrence come up with in terms of a final version of it. And we were lucky enough to kind of see a screening of of the draft and and and where the docks at now. So super cool experience overall, and I'm happy to go back next year or excited to go back next year.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yeah, Terrence Brown has had quite a quite a college run here. I mean, he was on some great high school teams. I think they beat D LaSalle, they'll go to state one of those years that he was there. Um he goes heads up out in Utah. Now he's going to North Carolina. Uh, just a really high, high-scoring player and super fun to watch. So that'll be really cool to check out. Um, when you said Gabe, is that Gabe Madsen? Because he was out there too. Are they working on this together? Minnesota guys.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

I'd have to double check his laughs in. I think that's right. His IG tag is directed by Gabe. So I just met him in person for the first time at Summer League. Uh, I think he played at Armstrong, um, and then now is living in LA and mostly doing um filmmaking and content-related things. So a lot of cool stuff coming from him. He's a super creative guy.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Nice, nice. Different.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

You can hoop a little bit too. Yeah, you can hoop a little bit too.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

But oh, okay. All right, cool, man. That's awesome. Yeah, Summer League's just it's another thing. I haven't done the film festival, but like that that goes on. Uh, I think they had some women in sports event going on that same weekend or right after Journey Summer League 2. So there's just it's a fun, fun place to be. Um as far as like let's back up on uh on your journey a little bit because I kind of want to get get the background. There's some cool connections you and I have with with North Dakota State. Um, but you started at Columbia Heights, you went to uh Bismarck State College and then to NDSU at the Division I level. What what do you kind of when you look back at your journey in basketball, what was some of the highlights and maybe like what was is there a moment that stands out to you as like this is when I fell in love with the game of basketball?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Sure. Yeah, I think um fell in love with the game of basketball was probably probably pretty early on. Um I just always kind of loved, I mean, I was the kind of kid who had binders full of basketball cards, and I I'd go pretend to pee people in the driveway and things like that. So that that part of it was pretty early. Um, and then being lucky enough to play at Columbia Heights for for two really good coaches and doing so at a time where like Columbia Heights was um you know really peaking um in a big way. Um, you know, we had Jake, Jacob Thomas, who was the number one rated player in Minnesota, and then Zach Lofton, who to this day is one of the best basketball players I've ever seen in my life, up close and personal. And I think, you know, falling in love with the game early, getting to Columbia Heights and getting to see the kind of super fan environment and seeing basketball at a super high level between those two being being a little bit ahead of where I was at, um, that just kind of lit lit a fire on under what was already there and allowed me to kind of see like, wow, this thing is a lot bigger than I thought. And I I want, I I really want to be a part of that. Um, and I would say the same thing kind of continued to happen. Like JUCO was you know a great experience, um, you know, got to travel and play basketball and go to school and have a little bit of autonomy, and then North Dakota State was kind of, you know, the next iteration of that, where again I was lucky to play on a team that had a lot of really talented guys, Carlin Dupree, Corey Brown, Lawrence Alexander, um, Dexter Werner, those kind of guys. Like uh and seeing basketball at a high level, being able to experience a national tournament was kind of it it it kind of brought out that same starry-eyed kid who fell in love with the game when I was younger. Um, you know, he came back in high school when I got to see Jake and Zach, and then you know, came back again at NDSU when I got to experience the national tournament and and playing at the Division I level. Probably did more watching than playing, but being around that atmosphere and getting to get in when I could was was a really awesome experience.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah, I mean, like as a kid growing up loving basketball, Marsh Madness is one of the things, right? Game seven NBA finals is probably another one where you just imagine yourself. Um, and like what were those emotions like as you're like maybe even just taking that practice floor, knowing you're playing the second-seeded Gonzaga, and I mean future NBA players like DeMontis Abonis was on that team, Kyle Welcher, Kevin Pongos, like that was a great Gonzaga team. I mean, what was that like just getting hyped for that game and that that experience?

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah, no, it was really cool. It was fun, especially being in college, right? Because as a mid-major, you have to win your conference tournament to go to the dance. Um, so it kind of felt like an arrival in a in a way, like, or like this is like this is the cool moment. Like, we got here, because you win the conference tournament, and then there's no classes, there's no school for like a week and a half, so you're just practicing basketball, and then you're taking you know a charter flight out to we played in Seattle, which is two hours from Spokane. So I got a bone to pick with the schedulers about that. But fun to get out there, like, you know, police escorts to the game, and it was all this like, what is happening right now? And you get to practice or shoot around. And, you know, media is at practice or shoot around, which is like that happens, but on that scale, like it was like nothing I'd ever seen before. Um, as far as the emotion, I think like the real, like I would say the biggest emotional part of it was my I remember my dad and I watching Steph Curry at Davidson, um, and then going out in the in the front yard and trying to shoot 40 footers and and do all the things I was seeing him do on TV. Um, and the way the sights work at at March Madness is um there's multiple games. Uh, and so I remember we're in the tunnel getting ready to go out for warm-ups, and Davidson had just finished playing Iowa. Um, and we see them come off the floor and kind of wait. So they come off and stage, and then we walk out and go onto the floor to warm up. And I just remember being in the tunnel and like seeing the Davidson guys and feeling like this is it, like I'm on the other side of the TV now. This is crazy. Um, and that was probably the most emotional part of it, and something I still remember having watched those games with my dad growing up and and then kind of feeling like I was inside of the TV at that point was was pretty nuts.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

That's that's awesome. Um, I remember 09 and DSU played Kansas at Metrodome in the first round. Oh, yeah. And that was kind of very eye-opening. Yeah, Woodside was unreal. He was very Alexander-like point guard, just getting buckets, and like it was awesome. Um those first round games are so fun. Um, Target Center's actually hosting some first round games next year, so I I can't wait to hopefully attend that again. But those are moments where you're just like, those there's kids there who will never experience that again, and it's just a really cool moment for them. Um, you played under Dave Richmond. That was his first year as head coach. Dave was on uh my pod earlier this year before they played Michigan State. Um, what do you remember about him in his first season as a head coach? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

I um I think the one thing that comes to mind with with Dave. Actually, I'll back up because now that I say that, the first thing that comes to mind with Dave is I was pretty close with uh Lawrence. Uh he's a really good guy, and Lawrence has had a different kind of stage in terms of team role and relationship with Dave than I was. So I remember like, you know, we'll be in the locker room or at the dining center or whatever, talking about coach, and we would all just call him Dave because we hung out with Lawrence and Lawrence would call him Dave. So I remember referring to him as Dave at practice one time, and uh that was uh in hindsight not the right not the right title, but he he handled it really gracefully. But um I I uh kind of got to think to myself, like, yeah, I'm not Lawrence, I probably shouldn't call him by his first name. Um but now I haven't been out of school, I'll just call him Dave. And I would say, you know, kind of in line with that, like I do remember Dave as being like almost brutally honest and brutally fair. Um, so like he was never gonna sugarcoat things, he would tell you what you needed to hear, not what you wanted to hear. Um, and he would absolutely never negotiate with you on like holding yourself to the standard of like what we agreed North Dakota basketball or what you as an individual player were were gonna be, right? You'd make that deal at the beginning of the year and um the deal was done, right? Like we are we're not having another conversation about it. Um, and I think that was a big part of why you know he is being able to experience the success that he's experienced. I mean, there's a hundred things I could say about Dave that would would kind of line up with that. But I think the first thing that comes to mind is that, and you know, that standard that he holds for himself and the program and and not negotiating on that or backing down at all. Um something I really admire about him and something that really helped us in a lot of ways, even post-basketball. Um, and he's still willing to hop on a call and kind of give you that same, you know, what do you need to hear, not what do you want to hear, and and do it in a in a loving way. And um, yeah, really love that about him.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah, um, he set the standard, like you said, like obviously Tim Miles before him, Saul Phillips before him, but like there is a standard there, and um, you know, them getting to the tournament again this year. I don't know how many that is now for him, five maybe just for maybe. Yeah, I lost track. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's awesome. So good stuff. Um let's let's pivot a little bit to current form uh and how you're involved in basketball because um last week I went to the Twin Cities Pro Lam, and um, you know, I really enjoy that. I take my son every year just because how often you get that close to some super high-level players, professional players, things like that. Um you know, t tell the listeners kind of how you got involved with the Twin Cities Pro Am and what your role is uh with Sadiqi Capital and the Twin Cities Pro Am team. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Yeah, so um I I've always kind of admired the Pro Am from afar. Uh I think it might have got started right around the time when I was at NDSU, and I remember seeing the clips and the Instagram and stuff and thinking like I gotta be involved with that, and even talking to some of my teammates, like, hey man, when you go to Minneapolis, you know, let me know like if we can sneak in a game or whatever the case may be. So um eventually I got done playing and started uh Dig Jamar Diggs, who um I believe founded the Pro Am, um, you know, kind of weasel my way in through mutual contacts and things like that to get his number and kind of bug him about like, hey man, is there any team that has an extra spot? Like, can we sneak in? This looks really awesome what you're doing. So kind of snuck in as a player um maybe four or five years ago and played played for for a few years that way. Um, and then last year um was my first year actually being able to sponsor a team. So that's Sadiqi Capital. Um, and we were able to have some success and and have some good players in and and just being part of that environment is is super fun and and doing it from this end is is really cool too, and being able to kind of in some ways be on the other side of that too, right? There's younger guys who want to be involved and to be able to like, you know, we we have a couple high schoolers that we've got into games um this year and last year. Um, Brett Soroin, who's a a recent St. Anthony grad, played his first game last summer. He played a couple games with us and he's on the full-time roster this year. So um it kind of think of the program without being too, I guess, gushy about it, but it kind of is right like a love letter to Minneapolis in a lot of ways, where like kids get to come in and see all of these guys play for free, and they're all young enough to appreciate, like, um, you know, to the point earlier about the tournament, right? Like these guys don't just live on the other side of the TV. It's not gonna be easy if that's where you want to go, but like they get to see like it's possible. Like you can see these guys, you can interact with them, and like if you you know do what you need to do, like you have a chance to maybe get there one day. So I think that piece of it is super cool for me.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Have the high school guys always been involved? Because um, I think that's a really cool touch. So you get these guys, I mean, obviously, grown men, 30-year-olds playing against some high school kids, there's some challenges there, but it I I think I find it really fascinating. Like, I watched Brett play last week and I talked to his brother. Um, we we played a pickup run together, and you know, we were just talking about how like we were talking about how like you know, last year it was like, whoa, and this is way too fast, and then you see how much that changes in a year.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Saw that a little bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah, but like Babu on is playing, uh, you know, he's on a roster, and I think KJ Wilson's on a roster. So some of the best players in Minnesota and high school get into compete against guys who've played in Spain or Italy for years and are seasoned vets. Like, it's like how does that come about? And like, how do you go about picking uh who's on a roster? Is it just uh GM's choice, or how do you guys kind of plan that out?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Sure, yeah. So the league helps us out with it a little bit. There's kind of a pool every summer of guys who are gonna want to play. Um, and they also do a pretty good job of like first leaving giving us the autonomy as sponsors to say, like, we want these guys. So um it's funny that you mentioned KJ actually. KJ was a guy who was like, I I really want KJ to play with us, like, love what he's doing on the court. And he's had some AAU stuff and he'll hopefully have a chance to get on the floor at some point this summer. Um, but guys like that, right, where like they give us the autonomy to say, you know, I I'd really love to have these guys, and you can kind of go out and and talk to whoever you want and try to see if they want to play with your team. Um, and then, you know, if there's a year where you might be a little short, maybe I have six guys who I think can really compete at that level. They do a good job of stepping in and helping you fill that roster out. Um Diggs, JW, Eli, a lot of the guys involved in the Pro Am like have a pretty good network themselves and do a good job of like trying to keep the parity of the league and making sure everybody has enough to compete on a given night. Um, so it's a little bit of both. You put your roster together and then the pro-am kind of gives you as much or as little help as you need, kind of fleshing that rusher out and making making something that's competitive.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

For some of the professionals, are there um things in their contracts? If they're on a contract, like they can't play in this? Because like I've always wondered, you know, like when Tyus comes, is it because he's between contracts or and if he gets signed, is he off? Or how how does that work? I I saw Jameis in battle on a roster this year, too, and he wasn't there the night we were there, but I'm just curious, like these guys, maybe maybe NBA, and if it's any different in Europe, I I don't know. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

So I'm not sure on Europe, I would imagine European clubs are a little bit more flexible, just the nature of those guys switching teams as often as they do. Um where they're not really a part of the team during the offseason because they might be playing in a different country the next year. Um for NBA, again, that might vary player to player. Um I my my thought would be that it's probably a little bit reverse where when guys are in between contracts, that's when they're really not going to play, right? Because they could get hurt in the pro am, and now all of a sudden, if they're negotiating their deal, that's a little bit of a tougher situation for them to be in. Um, so I think like Tyus, for example, I I don't know him very well, but there's a couple years ago where I think he was in between contracts and didn't play earlier in the summer and then signed his deal and played a little bit after that. Um so I think more guys between contracts kind of stay away from it. College, there there's some compliance considerations. There's a rule I learned about last year that I wasn't aware of. There's a lot of NCAA NCAA rules I'm learning about each and every day. But um, for example, with the NCAA, you you're only allowed to play in, even in the even in the age of NIL, you're only allowed to play in one pro-am. Um so if you play in another one, you you can't play in the Twin Cities Pro Am. Um other than that, the NCAA and most schools, uh, from a compliance or rules perspective or contracts, guys are allowed to play. Um, the one place NCAA or college differs from the NBA is that like the coach is kind of the head of the snake and the program can operate independently. So there doesn't necessarily need to be a compliance or NCAA rule that says this guy can't play. Um if the coach has got too much invested in a player or the player is a big part of the roster and the plan for the season, that risk just doesn't quite make sense for the coach. Um ultimately what the coach says is gonna go, and and we have to respect that because ultimately it's best for the player too. Um, so I would say NBA, I don't know of an explicit rule. I don't think there is one. College, I don't know of any explicit rule in contracts that doesn't allow for guys to play in pro ams. Um, but there's different league and team kind of dynamics that play into that.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Interesting. Yeah. Um, I have all these kind of questions because it's just you know, you go and like as a as a fan, as a former high school coach, there's a lot of good familiarity, and then I'm uh always spending half the time on my phone trying to figure out oh, where does this guy play again? Like what's his story? Um when you build out your roster for this, is there uh like how what is that process? Because uh obviously you you want the best players you can get, um, but is there like um, you know, hey, we need a a mix of this kind of guy, this kind of guy? Do you look um, I noticed like some of the, you know, there's a lot of like NAIA, D3, D2, um, all the way to D1 guys. So like what it when just for you personally and your team, Sadiqi Capital, what what's kind of your vision for roster building?

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Sure, yeah, and I think that's a really good way to phrase the question because like my vision for roster building is drastically different, probably, than some of the sponsors, and the same could be said for them. Um, I think our vision or my vision at Sadiqi Capital is I want to build like first and foremost, like a team that's fun to play for. Like these guys aren't getting paid. It's a lot of fun to play in the league, but at the end of the day, they're putting their bodies at risk, they're giving away their their off time in the offseason to come play. Um, so with that, I want to respect that and make sure like if they're gonna come play for us, I want it to be advantageous for everybody. Um, so I'd have uh Josh Pratt and Dame Dane Emmert, who coach uh I coach with at St. Anthony um as the coaches of the team, um, just to kind of take and and coming from somebody who's played in the league a little bit and played a little bit, the there's kind of a a significant amount of mental bandwidth that comes with some of those coaching decisions, right? Like I don't want to be a guy who stands up in the middle of the game and goes and tells another player they're out because I'm checking in. So they do a really good job of being qualified coaches and just handling the coaching part of the basketball game uh and then helping me out with the roster building thing too. Uh in terms of the overall kind of roster building philosophy, um, you're always trying to find that happy medium between like, you know, everybody who plays in that league obviously is really talented. Um, and some guys are on the upper end of that um spectrum versus others who are maybe more towards the middle. Um, and you're trying to find a trying to kind of find that balance between ta upper level talent and availability, right? Because the summer league's happening right at the beginning of Pro Am. So last year we had, you know, maybe four or five guys who are at NBA Summer League, which is uh I mean, I was kind of like, well, I can't believe those guys are gonna come play for us. But at the same time, it's like, well, that means for the next week or two I'm gonna have to be on the horn a couple hours a day trying to find enough subs to. To compete with professional basketball players on a Tuesday night. So that's where a lot of those, you know, NAI guys and and um you know different level college basketball players come in where they're a little bit more available in the summer and just as able to compete at that level. So you want to find enough guys that are gonna be there every night and be able to play and then find enough upper level talents. So when like you know, we played YHIC the other night, I think Javon Hadley and Dane Danger are both playing for them. So you need enough kind of big dogs to to hopefully slow them down a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah. Oh, that's funny because I saw Dane on uh on a on one of the rosters a couple weeks ago. And then I was like, dude, he's crushing it for the Nets. I'm like, I don't know if he's gonna come back and play in this Twin Cities Pro land when he's like, I think he had like 14 the game I saw out in Vegas. I mean, he looked good.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

So uh yeah, he's a he's a beast. And uh I think that team actually sort of kind of not go on too much further on the on the question, but like with the roster building philosophy. So that team this year, I think, is coached by Coach Ware, who's at Hopkins now and has some park center ties, and a lot of those guys are park center alum, and what a alumni list to have. That team is a juggernaut.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah, yeah, it's funny you see that like you see there's like a park center group, there's the there's a full deal-salle group, of course, too, a couple Cretender Law guys uh as well. Um what is you know when you when you pitch a player to come and play in the program, what what is kind of that uh pitch look like? What does it sound like? You know, is it hey, stay in shape, compete, that kind of thing? Uh you know, is what what what is that pitch look like?

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Sure. Um I think 90 to 95% of the legwork has already been done for us as sponsors, just in terms of like the job that the Twin Cities Pro M has done establishing a league and and the presence that it has in Minneapolis. Guys know the ProM and kind of want to play in the Pro Am for the most part. Um, so a lot of the work is done behind the scenes for us already and just the way that they've continued to build out the league and make it a cool place to play and a cool place to be. Um, and then from there it's just kind of like, you know, who do I know or who do I know that knows the guy that I want to play and kind of getting on the horn and trying to find a way to get in touch with the guys that you hope will play for you. Um would like to get to a point where, you know, hopefully you create an environment that's fun enough where guys want to just come back and play for us. And we do have a few guys returning from last year. Um, with last year being, you know, our first year as a team, some guys um aren't aren't in Minneapolis for the summer. You know, we had Titan Anderson play last year who's a monster. He's super talented, super high motor, and you know, just a any team on the Pro-M would be lucky to have him. But him, for example, he's not from Minneapolis. Um, he just happened to be in Minneapolis last summer, and the Pro Am's done a good enough job establishing themselves that it was something he wanted to do. Um, so you just kind of reach out to whoever you can to get in touch with these guys, and um for the most part, they kind of know enough about the Pro Am that you don't have to do a whole lot of selling, it just becomes more of an availability thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Got it, got it.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

And then getting a hold of them in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

But yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, I'm I mean, there's things where I'll see uh certain trainers working guys out for whether it's NBA draft or combine or summer league or whatever, and I I always wonder how many uh how many players are just hanging out in the Twin Cities working in the summer, you know, like uh because it's more than I would guess. You know, um there's there's a few outfits where I'm like, oh man, I that that's a pretty big name. As like a college basketball fan, I'm always like, man, that's that's he he was a heck of a college player. Like I didn't realize he was working out in the twin cities. So I'm sure you get some of that too, where guys are just just like you said, just here working out with a certain trainer.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Right. Yeah, in a lot of ways, I'm just like anybody else, too, right? Like I'm a hoops fan still and a junkie at heart, so I'll be scrolling on Instagram. Like, I had no idea that guy was in Minneapolis. Like, let me hop in the DMs and you know try to track down whoever I need to track down to see what he's up to the next week. And that's actually usually what I lead with is kind of like, hey, what are you up to in July?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Um that's awesome. Uh I I on the business side of it, I'm always curious because I I'm as a fan, I love that it's free. I'm also shocked that it's free. So like I've been sure telling everybody that I know, like, yeah, you gotta go, man. This is great. It's super fun. But like what's the I mean, we don't have to get into any specifics, but just like kind of curious on how the business of the program works, and like uh is it all sponsor driven then, and then you know that that's why there isn't any uh uh admission fees or anything like that for fans.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Sure. I think yeah, so I I don't know all of the details. I do know from a sponsor perspective, like there's enough information out there for me to piece a good chunk of it together. Um so as a team sponsors, I'll pay to be a sponsor of the Pro Am. Um and then there's you know registration as well for each team. So that that kind of covers, I would imagine, uh, at least a good portion of the league's overhead. Um and then I think also independent of that, I you know, I think I'm kind of speaking for Diggs and JW and Eli and all those guys a little bit here, but I I I think at the ProM level they've really made that um kind of a point of emphasis that like they want kids to show up and be able to just watch a game, or they want, you know, parents are already getting off of work and driving over to you know whatever gym after after a long day with four of their kids and and getting dinner and all those things afterwards. Like they want kids to be able to be there, they want people to be able to experience this. That's why I think in a lot of ways it is kind of a you know love letter to Minneapolis. Like they want the city to be able to experience this, and you know, removing that barrier to entry, I think is a really important thing. And if the economics work, I'm I'm sure they do work out, but I I don't think that's the primary driver for what they're doing here. Um, so I think a big part of it is like they just want kids to be able to see it.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

That's awesome. That's I mean, it's phenomenal because like I said, it's something that I've now is a tradition for me and my son, and we'll bring a couple of his buddies and go out to eat in Minneapolis, and it's just a great, it's a great experience. So I'm glad I'm happy to hear that. Um one of the talkers in the NBA uh at Summer League, at least because it was in Vegas, was expansion. Uh does the Twin Cities Pro Am we got six teams? Is there ever talk of expansion? Do we get more more players, more teams in the future?

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Sure. I mean, I would say I was definitely on the horn about expansion before I got a team. So I was trying my best, and they they let me kind of sneak in and grab one. Um, you know, I think it it might be a you know a cool idea down the road. Uh you know, the the pro-am guys uh you know who run the league could probably speak to it a bit better than me. Um the way I see it, and from what I understand, is that that becomes a tricky balance with especially with a lot of European and college guys, like they have a very short window when they're home at all. Um so to find you know 60 guys to field six teams that are home between you know beginning of July and beginning of August and able to play two or three nights a week is a bit of a challenge in and of itself. And the more teams you add to that, right, the more difficult it might get. Um I think the all also the other thing to be mindful of is there there are other programs around the country that do have multiple teams. And um, you know, you see it on Instagram and and and they are really great leagues. And if you get like a LeBron or uh you know one of those guys to show up every couple of years, then those leagues do grow a lot. The tricky part is then you have the Tuesday nights when those guys aren't there and you have 25 teams, and you know, where are you gonna find the you know few hundred guys that are able to play at that caliber and they're all in the same city in the short window? So it's a very difficult kind of space or needle to thread for the Pro-M in terms of when guys are available in the summer. I think I I don't think it's something that they're they're actively opposed to. Um, I think it's it's just really challenging to find the guys. So maybe we'll see more teams in the Pro Am down the road. Um, I think it'd be cool to just kind of see the league grow. And if that means more teams or whatever the case may be, I think that'd be really cool. But um I'll leave that to leave that to the pro-am to kind of figure out how to make that work on top of all the other things they're already doing.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah, for sure, sure. Uh that was just a selfish uh question because it's more basketball, more teams, more players love it.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Um I'm all about more games, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah. Um just to put a bow on the pro-am uh started what July 11th, runs through what, like the 6th of August or something like that. Is that when when is that championship?

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yeah, I'd have to double check. Generally, the championship, and I'm just pulling it up quick. I think it's it's usually that first week of August. Um so there'll be a seeding day. Um, opening weekend of the pro-am and seeding day are kind of unique in that both of them are on Saturdays, which is really cool. Um, and they're also two days where everybody every team is gonna play. Um, so that's that's really cool. I'd have to look at I I think it's right around the end of August or beginning of August.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Um, so there'll be a seeding day um right after the regular season where again it'll be a Saturday. All six teams are gonna play back to back to back. Um, and then they'll kind of use that to readjust the seeds if needed based on how teams perform that day. Uh, and then it's winner go home after that.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah, yeah. So essentially fans have two weeks, two full weeks. Uh games Monday, Tuesday, Thursday until uh the is the seeding day on a Saturday, you said?

SPEAKER_00 31:48

I believe so. Um yeah, yeah. No, seeding day is on a Saturday.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah, check out the schedule, just Google Twin Cities Program schedule. It's it's online, but um, yeah, two weeks left, roughly. Uh get out there, watch it. Um Matt, uh, you are a sponsor Sadiqi Capital. Uh we were talking a little bit about NIL before, it's always a hot topic. Um you you've waded into those waters a little bit. Um just maybe high level any changes or anything coming down the line that you could see with NIL and how that's obviously it's changed college basketball tremendously. I mean, I've even hearing things in high school and stuff like that around it, but um what what are you know what can fans I guess like expect maybe in the next year or two, if anything from a legislation standpoint or NCAA standpoint, um any anything you know of or could foresee, I'm not gonna hold you to it, of course.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Sure. Good deal. Yeah. Um I would say I think the the NCAA has been in antitrust litigation, I think at the Supreme Court level for a number of years now, um, which is how some of this has you know finally been able to take shape. Um I think changes we could see or a lot of conversations being had are around the employment status of college basketball players. Um as of right now, they're all 1099, which if you're familiar as um or if the audience is familiar, means that they're they're effectively they're all businesses. Every single player is paid as though they're a business or an independent contractor. Um, whereas, you know, in the NBA or NHL, I'm pretty sure the NFL 2, they're paid as a W-2, which is the same as any other job. Um, so that comes with a lot of additional, in addition to having these large sums of money for a lot of these players, that comes with a lot of complexity that most people, you know, don't step into unless they're actively choosing to be a business owner. Um, day one, the second you receive an NIL check, you whether you wanted to be or not, you are a business. Um there there may be a lot of conversations in the next couple years about that. That's something I'd keep an eye on, especially when it comes to you know, players transferring, there's a lot of varying opinions on you know whether guys should be able to go to a school and leave after a year. Um, they're independent contractors, so ultimately, you know, if you look at the NBA, there's multi-year contracts, right? You know, you you play for the Timberwolves, you sign a three-year deal for $30 million or whatever it is, you're playing for that team for three years and you have a contract, and maybe they trade you, maybe they don't, but you're playing for that team for three years if nothing else changes. In college, they're all one-year deals. Um, and when you kind of get into that employee territory, um, that's where you're dealing with kind of arguments or pretty concrete evidence against amateurism, which has been at the heart of NIL not happening the last 50 years. Um, so I think there'll be a lot of conversations to be had about what these contracts look like and what the obligation of the institution and the player is going to be going forward. And hopefully something to address ticket prices too for fans, because I think that's that's one way cost is getting offset that I'd like to see changed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah. Well, there's yeah, a lot of money being made somewhere, uh, and it wasn't the players for a long time. And so I think, you know, as a fan, I know it's hard to take sometimes the changes, but I will say that um last year was one of the most enjoyable college basketball seasons I've watched. Just from a it's been awesome, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Yeah. But from a basketball perspective, the number of older guys staying, which is creating some of the good basketball, and then that freshman class last year was just crazy. So there's there's good to it as well, and I think players being treated uh or you know, seeing some of the um financial impact of the game is is is a good thing overall.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, and without sounding too soapboxy, I think for you know, there might be more frustrated fans than others out there, but I think one thing to remember at the end of the day is like these guys are 19 to 23 years old. Like if I was 22 and another job or another school offered me, you know, a million dollars to go to their school next year, like I'd be signing the paper at the airport. Like, right.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Um what would all of us do? You know, any company comes with more money, people leave, and like that's just how it goes. So yeah. Uh people cheering for laundry is is a different breed, though. They they don't you know always think of it that way. Um speaking of that kind of money, like as a financial advisor, um I mean that's crazy, right? If you think about like a 19-year-old making like seven million dollars at Louisville or Kentucky or whatever, like are there like what do you tell someone? I don't know if you would you know could share anything, but like I'm I'm always like, Well, how how do you manage a kid's, I mean, you know, a young adult's money that's just comes into it that fast and that quickly, and you know, just it's just life-changing money, you know, it's it's it's wild.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

No, it really is. And I think it it comes with a lot of r responsibility, especially if it being a new space, like you want to act behave in a way that's ethical and in in any, you know, money management or even outside of money in any advisory role, you always want to lead with what's best for the client or what's best for the player. Um, and I think, you know, for a lot of guys, right, they're like I said, 19 to 23, 24 years old. Um so you know, I'm still young enough to remember where my what my head was at at 19 to 24 years old. And um, you know, to add on to that, right, they're learning about S-corps, they're learning about estimated tax payments. They're all a business the second that they sign that NIL deal. Um, so a lot of it's education, right? Like what do all these things mean? Um, you know, I think most people are in their 30s or 40s that might make their head spin, you know, managing, you know, estimated tax payments. And yeah, I had a couple hundred thousand come in this month, and that that is life-changing, and that's awesome. But at the same time, like I'm gonna have to write a check to the IRS for you know fifty to a hundred thousand dollars next month, and I'm 18 or 19. Um, like that's wild. Um, so a lot of it's education and and teaching them what some of these things mean because for them, not only on the court, but now off the court, their learning curve is as steep as it's ever been. Um, and it comes with a really large amount of life-changing opportunities. And at the same time, the the margin for error is razor thin, right? You think about a normal, you know, person like you or I planning for retirement, we're gonna work, you know, hopefully on the lower end, but on average, probably, you know, 30 to 40 years working a job to save enough for retirement uh and then live for 15 years, spend that money, and um we call it end of retirement and advisory, but that would be kind of the end of everything, right? When you when you're no longer with us. Um whereas for an athlete, that's flipped on its head, right? Your peak earning years are 10 years, and your retirement period is gonna be 50 or 60 years. So you got 10 years to get that right, and most of the money is coming in in that window. And if you don't make the right choices, or if you do make the right choices, depending on what you do, that 50 or 60 years after you're done playing can look a lot different.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Wow, that's when you put it into those terms, that is wild to think about. Um, and I am gonna use the end of retirement uh verbatim. Sure. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Use that at a funeral, maybe to keep emotions a little lower.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Hey, they didn't die, they just ended retirement.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Um I mean that that's always a fascinating topic. I I I ran into a guy at Pickup Ball and we were talking about NIL. Um, he had some connections with St. Thomas, and I was just like, this is crazy to me. Just um mostly just because I'm not smart enough to understand a lot of the financial components of it, but just yeah, that idea of young kids um getting access to things like that and then having to plan their life for the 50 years, you know, it's just wild. So right.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

At 22 or 20 or whatever it is. Yeah, we're all learning as we go.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Oh god. Yeah. I I am not uh it is too far in the past for me to remember, but I can guarantee you I was not in a good headspace just to make lifelong financial decisions at that age.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

No kidding.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Oh so uh that was a serious topic. I want to end quickly on a couple of rapid fire kind of fun fun questions with you, Matt, if if you got a couple minutes here. Um yeah, let's do it. So let's talk about uh kind of going back to playing days. Uh actually, you know, playing with GM days. Hardest player to guard in the pro am. For you or anybody right now. Like who's the hardest player to guard?

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Um I mean I think Terrence Brown is pretty hard to guard. Thankfully, I I uh I was lucky enough to catch him when he was 15, 16 years old, so I got a little bit less embarrassed than than some other guys might get. I haven't actually guarded him in the pro am, but he's pretty tough. The guard hardest guy I've ever guarded in the pro-am. Um, you know, I I want to say obviously, skill-wise, Tyus is pretty difficult to guard. Um, Trey Jones is really hard to guard, but I think two that really come to mind are uh Anton Kimmons is the fastest human being I've ever seen in my life. Uh and I got I was on the wrong end of a couple switches with him. Uh and then Kyle, uh I I want to make sure I'm pronouncing his last name right, but I think his last name's Wishart. Um Kelvin Wishart. Kelvin, yeah. Delano. Kelvin, Kelvin Wishart. He is an absolute demon. Um, so I I don't appreciate getting stuck on an island with him either.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Yeah. One of the things I appreciate about Pro Am is um the trash talking you can hear almost plain as a day. Yeah, who's the best who's the best trash talker? Uh could be Pro Am, could be anywhere. Who is the best trash talker you ever encountered?

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Best trash talker. I don't want to dance, I don't want to evade the question, but I would say from my definition in a kind of KD like move in silence sort of way, uh it'd probably be Tyus because he'll absolutely, you know, a couple years ago when I was playing every game, he'll do something that makes you look absolutely ridiculous and he'll have no reaction. Like he expected to embarrass you and he's not surprised by it. He's not emotionally affected by it. He just, this is what was gonna happen. He took one look at you and knew this is where he was going.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

That's that's almost worse, the silence of like exactly. I I got everything I need in your your 100%.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

And then Anthony Tucker, too, I think is very similar in that way. He's not playing anymore. I think he's more involved with who happens now, but very similar to Tyus in that like he knows exactly where he wants to get, and it's it's inevitable in a way, and that inevitability when you switch on to him, it's like it's it's worse than anything he could say.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Yeah, yeah. That's uh the Phanos uh inevitability there. Uh exactly. Okay, last last one. Um, you mentioned coaching at St. Anthony. What's a takeaway from your journey as a player, as a coach, um that you share with you the guys that come in through your program at St. Anthony? Like, is there a piece of wisdom that you try to uh you know impr impress on them anytime you uh start a season?

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Sure, yeah, I um it's mostly recycled Dave Richman quotes, to be honest, and I catch myself doing it way more than I care to admit. You know, he'd always say like two hands, two eyes, two feet, or you know, the kind of how you do anything is how you do everything ideology. So it's a lot of tidbits like that. And I think also just the general idea that like sports imitates life in a lot of ways, and like the same things that you do showing up every day doing your job and like dealing with the kind of nonlinear trajectory of success and and reward that that sports is going to give you, right? You can do all the right things and still lose the game, you can do all the right things and still turn the ball over and miss the shot. Um, but you have to Just kind of keep showing up and doing those things every day. I think that is kind of what I most try to convey. And you got to do it in a few different ways with teenagers to kind of see what sticks and then just stick with that language or terminology. And then there's just the idea that like not everything is going to be fair, right? And like you can only control what you can control. And that's not um that's not something that's easy to do per se, but it is simple, right? Like you make the decision that this is how I'm gonna show up every day, and and this is what I'm willing to put into this, and I have zero control over the result. But if I do that, I put myself in the best situation possible to see success.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Great advice. Uh great advice. Um, Joe and you, mutual friend Joe at St. Anthony. You guys got those kids uh rolling and uh on a good job.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

I love Joe, he runs a tight ship.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Yeah, yeah. Yep. Um, so appreciate Joe for connecting us, by the way. Uh, shouts to Joe Queerd. Um for sure. Thanks, Matt, for joining. This was super fun. We could go on for hours. Any final plug do you want to do for whether it's Pro Am, Sadiq Capital, anything else uh you want to plug?

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Yeah, for sure. Um, I guess speaking of the Pro Am, we are uh trying to put together similar to what we do at St. Anthony, we do a youth night with the varsity team uh where we invite the kids out to kind of interact with the players a little bit more, maybe do some halftime stuff and some giveaways. Um we are gonna try to expand that to the Twin Cities Pro Am this year. So next Tuesday, July 28th, I think. Uh first games at 545 we play, and then there'll be another game after us. So we'll try to get some special guests and do some giveaways. So we have a few surprises, hopefully, Tuesday that that are gonna come to fruition. So kids will be there for free. The uh Tender Love and Chicks Food Truck with a local St. Anthony parent actually is the owner of that and a few other businesses. So there'll be a chicken food truck outside, concessions inside, and some great hoops and and and some giveaways and and hopefully some special guests inside on Tuesday the 28th. And it's all free. Just come as you are, show up, and have a good time.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Yeah, D La Sale High School, 545, Tuesday the 28th. I will plan on being there, man. That's awesome. I'm excited for that. Yeah, I'm fun.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Hopefully, see you there.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Uh sweet, man. Well, this was super fun, and you know, I would love to connect again later, maybe during the high school season when you guys are in the in the thick of it. We can catch you um and talk more basketball. But uh thanks for coming on. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Sure, yeah. No, let's do it again sometime. Anytime this was fun. All right, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

All right, thanks to Matt Karuma for joining me today. Very fun conversation. Definitely gonna have to have him on again. And again, if you haven't been there, get on over to the Twin Cities Program at D LaSalle. Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays, Tuesday, July 28th, they're gonna have a special night with some games and uh giveaways for kids. So if you got kids who love the game of basketball, get on over there Tuesday at 5 45. Um, again, great episode. Appreciate Matt for coming on. Uh lots more to talk about the rest of the summer. Appreciate you being here. Uh, if you enjoy the show, if you enjoy the podcast, give us a follow, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Blue Sky, Facebook, wherever you're on socials, uh, YouTube, we're on there as well. So thanks again for joining. I'm Steve Hartman. This has been the Splash City basketball podcast.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Bag in it, back in and back again. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.