From MSG to KAT: A Fan's View of the Knicks' NBA Finals Run

What is it actually like to be a die-hard fan when your team is on the precipice of ending a championship drought? On this episode of the Splash City Basketball Podcast, host Steve Hartman shifts the focus to the bleachers and the concourses, bringing on New York native and ultimate Knicks fan Nick Jezerian to deliver the definitive fan perspective on the 2026 NBA Finals. 

Nick opens up about the emotional rollercoaster of traveling down to San Antonio with his teenage son, confronting past sports trauma from road arenas, deciding whether to boldly wear his Knicks gear, and discovering that an incredible third of the crowd was packed with fellow New York faithful. From fans singing in the hallways to high-fiving in the Uber lines, Nick describes the surreal feeling of watching a high-stakes away game turn completely into a home environment. 

The guys also contrast that hostile road victory with the legendary, localized DNA of Madison Square Garden. Nick looks back at the legendary playoff comebacks he’s witnessed at the Mecca —where not a single soul leaves their seat early —and describes the pure basketball culture of a city that lives and breathes the sport. 

Finally, they pivot to the fan relationship with Karl-Anthony Towns, tracing how a city built on grit and attitude transformed a complicated regular season connection into full-blown love for a potential Finals MVP frontrunner. 

It’s an episode dedicated to the traveling fan, arena camaraderie, and the beautiful, raucous reality of New York basketball peaking at the perfect time!

Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or YouTube. 

Follow Splash City Basketball Podcast on Instagram, Facebook and Bluesky. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Bag in them, back in them, back again. Whoa, whoa, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:08

Hello everyone, and welcome to the Splash City Basketball Podcast. I'm your host, Steve Hartman, and today we're talking Carl Anthony Towns, New York Knicks, and the NBA finals. The Knicks take a commanding 2-0 series lead into tonight's game three. And they're riding, I think it's a 13-game playoff win streak at this point, which is nuts. Um, going back to the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden, which we'll talk about later with uh my guest Nick Jazarian. Uh, New York chasing their first title since 1973. Nick is the biggest Knicks fan. I know your name aptly due to your fandom here. Um, but really excited to have you on because a lot of Timberwolves fans, obviously, have never experienced NBA Finals. Um, I myself have never been to Madison Square Garden, and I certainly haven't been to an away NBA Finals game as the opponent in a hostile arena. So excited to have you on again, Nick. You're my first back-to-back guest, by the way. Two shows back to back. So what an honor for you. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Lucky, thank you for having me again. This is great.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Yeah, yeah, man. It's awesome. Um, obviously, we talked pickup ball last time, but um, we had a lot of Nick's discussion in the background, and um, excited to talk about it. I did not expect them to be up 2-0, to be honest, uh, at this point in the series. So, how are you feeling after uh a 2-0 sweep down in San Antonio?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, I did not expect to be here either uh at 2-0, but it feels great. I mean, how else can it feel? It just it was a little uh scary at the end of game two, where they coughed up the lead. But um, I'm sure every fan base that hasn't won in a long time starts to feel those other emotions start to creep in. Oh, this is how it gets done, and I could start to picture the the different endings. But this Knicks team has really proven to be resilient and fight through everything. It's like they've forgotten how to lose, and so feel really good. Um, I think the Spurs are intimidating and scary. So, of course, tonight feels like a really must-win game for the Knicks, even though they're up 2-0, in my opinion, just because don't not let any doubt creep in. And so if you could just close the door on them tonight, I think it would be incredible. But I mean, you'd much rather be in the 2-0 position. It feels really great. I'm excited for it.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Yeah, yeah. Losing two at home in uh NBA Finals is tough for sure. Uh, you flew down there, so that's awesome, first of all. Uh, what was it like being a Knicks fan in San Antonio? Because honestly, on TV, you couldn't quite tell who was the home team based on the crowd reactions. It was insane.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

It it was insane. And so I had seen some of the the stories and heard about it in Philly, um, and then even in Cleveland. And uh I I took my son down, he's he's 16, and we met another friend of mine, and I was debating whether should I wear my stuff? Do I wear my hat? Do I wear my I think I've been scarred from Philly and Boston experiences, but the the uh I did I did wear it, and I would say it felt like it was a third of the crowd, I would, I would say. 25 to 33, you know, maybe a third of the crowd was was Knicks fans. Um and at times you you you couldn't tell who they were saying, let's go, um, chance to. And it was it was really incredible and um super fun down there. After the game, the hallways were crowded with Knicks fans just singing and chanting. Um, we went out to the Uber line, you know, Knicks fans just fist bumping each other. It was it felt like a home game. It was it was really incredible. It was really incredible.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

There's something about being the away team where that camarader is like ratcheted up, right? At home, you're surrounded by like-minded people, but when you go to another city and you find that group, you know, like you said, maybe it's 6,000 people or whatever they are, Knicks fans, and you're just like you're even more attached because you you're the ones that made the trip or you're the ones that you know stood out, and you gotta stick together, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

And uh, you know, the the funny thing was I was so stressed out during game one because I'm like, I need them to win this because I'm gonna be so stressed out if we're down one and I go into game two. But it uh it worked out really well and um just so much fun. So we went into game two with zero expectations because right, isn't that old adage that you win win one game on the road and you steal one on the road and you're good? So we got one. Yeah. And um they didn't look great to start the game. And the refs, I I I mean, you know, we'll talk about that, I suppose, but of course I'm a homer, so I do feel like Bronson's getting beat up pretty bad in in the series. Uh that they're allowing them to be really, really, really physical. And I think the Knicks, it took the toll on them in the first quarter, but they just keep fighting and they keep showing up. So it's been it's been super fun. My favorite thing that happened during this uh during this game was we had some Spurs fans obviously sitting behind us. It was a good mix. They were really nice, really nice fans. And um at at the end, Brunson was what, seven, six of twenty-three at the time, before he hit that final little jumper that was almost the same exact shot as they hit in game one. And he's dribbling down, the clock's counting down, it's under a minute to go, and you see him dribbling, and the guys behind me start going, it's gonna be the same shot. It's gonna be the same shot. And then he fades away, he puts the ball up, and I hear the guy behind me just scream, it's the same effing shot every time once you guard him. And uh, so it felt good that one went in for for him, but it was it was really funny because you know, as a fan, you don't really feel that, right? You always you'll so to to be able to know that we have a player that every other fan base is scared of when he has the ball in the final seconds is pretty it's pretty incredible. It's so much fun.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

Yeah, yeah, he is definitely that. I mean, I think if just as a neutral observer, if it's close in the final three, four minutes, you gotta lump the Knicks' chances just because of him. I mean, he just and it's not just that shot. Like he I forget which game it was, but he had that huge play where he tips a rebound out, yeah, and then like I think he threw it to Sean uh some. Right, yes, that that that that's those are just plays that the Knicks are making that I think as Wolves fan, we saw the Thunder make and the Spurs were making, but the Knicks, Josh Hart and even their star player Brunson, make all these little plays and these little hustle plays, and everything's challenged. And I think that's just what's been so interesting to watch is is how they've they're not just like you know, Jalen Brunson hitting all these tough shots and talents hitting threes. They're gritty and they do a lot of a lot of little things to win basketball games, man.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Well, well, it's interesting too, because I I've had a lot of conversations with uh a lot of Timberwolves. I live in Minneapolis, so a lot of Timberwolves fans um that I'm friends with. And uh we talk about this quite a bit. And the Timberwolves clearly I they have I would say top five, definitely top ten player in the NBA and Anthony Edwards, but I don't know if they have a legit 2, 3, 4, 5 type option after that. Like that plays to their role. Like Julius should be that. Is he a two? It's really hard to say. Jay McDaniels feels like your third best player, but is he's probably the fourth best player on a championship team, maybe? Um Rudy. I mean, it's it's a struggle. Like I think you need to I feel this is the first team I I've been able to root for as a basketball fan in the NBA that truly has parts and pieces like one through eight that all play their role. They don't have to overplay their role. Um, and so if they just do what they're supposed to do every single night, it should work out. And so the way this team has been constructed is really pretty incredible. And I I hope the Wolves can get there because they they are my second favorite you know team to root for now, living in Minneapolis, and they have the they have the the one thing that is so hard to get, which is that alpha superstar who can get a bucket, but um he needs some more pieces around him for sure.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

Yeah, more reliable, I would say, and like you said, more like Dante. This is I mean, not to rehash the last like month of podcasts, but like the Dante injury, because he was that guy, right? Like he was the hustle, the heart and soul, which is why he fit so well with that group in New York. Um, but Josh Hart is that as well, and so and then and then you get all these guys buying in. And when your star player, Jalen Brunson, is making like contested rebound tip-out plays, yeah, everybody has to follow because that's your leaders doing the little things. I need to do the Carl Towns Carl Anthony Towns, does a lot of yeah, little things too, and and we'll talk more about him later. But I just think they're they're such a fun team to root for. I typically would avoid rooting for New York teams based on uh the East Coast bias, but it's pretty, I mean, they're a likable bunch and they they play a really fun uh brand of basketball.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I I think it's a moment in time for for the Knicks too, because everyone loves they they there's a phrase Knicks for clicks where it's just pundits saying like why the Knicks suck, you know, why they're they're not gonna um their draft picks get panned every year. It's just it's easy to beat up on them, right? And so now they have a team that actually is is achieving. I I wouldn't know don't know if you'd say overachieving, because I do think they have a lot of really, really talented players, but but they're still underdogs. They're still going into the series. So many people were picking the Spurs to go and beat them. Um, even as they were beating Cleveland, people were saying, well, they're gonna be in the underdog no matter who they play next series. And so I love that they just put their head down and go. And I do think that helps other people root for them too, because when the the underdog is is winning and they're playing like really beautiful basketball, I think. Um like you probably saw that clip going around where there was just like Brunson gets in the lane, kicks it to the corner, someone drives to the middle, kicks just like unbelievable ball movement that's going on right now. Is uh it's easy for a basketball fan to like to watch.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Absolutely, absolutely. Um so they're up 2-0. Um, like you said earlier, like you you're happy with a split. I feel like that is not championship mentality, which is what makes the sp the Knicks win in game two so much more impressive. Because like if you're not in there to win every game, to you know, what do they say, put the boot on the throat type of, then you're not a championship team. And so like the fact that they did that, they go up 2-0. Now you're going to back to Madison Square Garden. You were there, it was uh game one of Eastern Conference Finals. Um it's on my bucket list. I've never been there. Uh big East Tournament's tournament is is definitely on my radar at one of these years. But um tell those of us who love basketball, what is what is the Mecca like? What is it at the world's most famous arena? What's that like?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So I I suffered through many, many years of of bad teams. And even when they were bad teams in the fourth quarter, if it was a close game, like it was a raucous, raucous place. Like Nick, the fans just love good basketball. And they would acknowledge too, right? If if if like you know, Kobe would come in and drop 40 or something like that, they're they're ooing and eyeing. They just love the like craft and and sport of basketball. Like, you can't walk two blocks without seeing a basketball court for the most part in New York City. So it's it's like part of the DNA of the city. But now that they're good, it is just unbelievable. And so um I I was fortunate I got to go to that game. That was the game they they came down from 22 points with like seven minutes to go or something like that. And uh, and it was it was looking really bad, and you were getting really nervous. And um, my son asked me when I got home how many how many people left. It was like nobody, there wasn't one soul that left. It was quiet and people were down. I remember there were three Cavs fans that I could see sitting, you know, because we were more in the upper deck. I could three Cavs fans I could see sitting in the lower row, getting up and dancing to the music. Uh seven minutes later, they were nowhere to be found. There was a sea of you know, Knicks fans and dancing, but uh yeah, it was incredible. And you talk about Brunson, that was where um I've never felt like this before, and that's why I love this team too. Is they when they cut it, they cut it to 17 with like six minutes to go, and I thought, is this gonna happen? Yeah. Because you just there's just certain moments when Brunson hits a shot or two, you're thinking, like, okay, this is like elite shot making, like, this is gonna start to happen. And they didn't have an answer for him, and he reeled off what is like 18-point run or something almost by himself. It was just unbelievable, and it just got louder and louder and louder, and um, it's just the it's such an incredible experience and vibe. Everyone's hugging each other and jumping, and uh, it's just you can't even hear yourself think. Um, but the fun thing is I've been able to go to a couple of playoff games in the last few years. If you get there early, people are shooting around, and um you know, it's an hour before the game, and they're doing Knicks chants and they're chanting the players' names that are on the court. It's just like such a lively vibe. It's super, super fun. The city is like electric when it's uh when the Knicks are good. Have you been there for non-Knicks games? Uh I've been there for for college games to Massa Square Garden. Yeah, St. John's. St. John's gonna be. Yeah, so I'm a big St. Johns fan. Also, I'm from New York originally, so I'm a big St. John's fan. Um, so yeah, I got to see I I and those tickets were much easier to get because they didn't always fill, they don't fill the arena really. Um but I got to see uh my favorite, you know, I got to see Ron Artest that those St. John's amazing. Um, but yeah, so it's uh it's good, but when the Knicks are in town, it's just a different, different level.

SPEAKER_04 14:00

Right, right. Yeah, it's um it's on the bucket list, like I said, uh Madison Square Garden game three tonight. Um let's talk about towns a little bit because I mean there was kind of a love-hate relationship with him here. You know, people appreciated some of the things he did. Obviously, the last year he was here, they go to the Western Conference Finals. He defends Durant, he defends Jokic really well. And um overall, I you know, just didn't play great in that Mavs series. And so I think from then people kind of were like, well, is he really gonna be the second best player on a championship team? Or can he, you know, do do the things necessary? Um, he's been, I mean, by all accounts a great guy, like nobody ever chastises effort or anything like that. But the endless charges, out of control drives, things like that, war on fans. Um, how are how is he being received by Knicks fans? Obviously, right now it's all good, but like, you know, middle of the year, what was kind of the perception and thought around Towns?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, well, it's easy to it's easy to forget it right now, but if I think the first year and a half of the two years he's been in New York, um, it was a love-hate relationship too. I think we saw a lot of the things you could see, the unlimited potential, the shooting ability, the passing ability, unbelievable rebounder. Um, but a lot of those you know, plays where you're thinking, just stay focused, get your head in the game, don't argue with refs. A lot of arguing with refs. And so it was a little bit of a love-hate. And I have to be honest, after watching him closely, because I was living in Minneapolis at the time when the trade happened, or still am, but at the time of the trade, I was not happy with it as a Knicks fan because I love Dante. I thought Dante just I love dudes that are gonna get after every ball, fearless. I thought his shooting helped really space the floor for Jalen Brunson. Um, and I thought Kat needed the ball to be really effective, like in his hands quite a bit. But the last something happened in the last um probably month or two of the season into the playoffs where Kat has uh they everyone's saying that he's bought in, like that's sort of the narrative, like all of a sudden he's bought in that he doesn't have to, you know, shoot 20 times a game to be really effective. But I heard um I heard something uh Sam Mitchell said on NBA radio this week that I think you know really hit home, which was uh he said that he was one of the few people that never criticized Kat's defense. He thought Kat needed the ball and to touch the ball in order to be like truly engaged on both sides of the floor. And so whatever changed where they started running more offense through him, um allowing him to make decisions, his shot totals went down significantly, but his impact went up immensely. And so I think that's part of it is he feels like a critical component. I think he's someone who really feeds off being valued. Um and I think New York loves him to death right now. Like he's just he's just doing it. New York, that's one thing about New Yorkers, I think um, you miss shots, it sucks. But effort and attitude is is is what the you know, I think people can thrive on. So if you're if you're doing the right things, um, you're playing hard, you're leaving it out there, uh, then people get behind you 100%. I think that's what Kat's doing right now. He's playing incredibly, his drives are more under control, his defense is really good, his passing's unbelievable. Um, and you're shooting 12 shots a game, and and like you know, everyone's walking away saying that guy dominated the game.

SPEAKER_04 17:31

It's pretty pretty wild. It is like the post-game stuff too. Even like Chuck and Shaq, who are notoriously, notoriously not fans of towns, have been praising him. And it's right, you're right. I mean, the efficiency is crazy. Uh, looks like he he's shooting 56% from the field. Like you said, not shooting a ton, but making shots. Like, I think he was like eight of 13 one of the games. Yep. Um, but just yes, that I think everyone kind of always knew he was a great passing big man, like he's just very skilled. Um, but you're right, like getting facilitating and taking some of that pressure off Brunson, you know, early where he can catch it out on the perimeter and turn it face because he's got he can shoot it, so you have to respect him. And it just opens up the back of the floor for Ananobi and Hart and cutting and you know the dribble handoffs and stuff that they can run with Brunson and him. And this I think is such a problem, a unique problem that they present to the Spurs, where it's what everybody's been saying for the last two series is you have to pull Wemby out of the paint. Yep. And and they can, but the difference is the towns can guard Wemby as well. It's not just a one-way street. I mean, he's yes, pulling him out, and then he's able to defend him. He's quick enough, he's just big enough uh to deter shots. But um, yeah, he's been awesome. I mean, he he is right now, would you say, the MVP of the finals so far through two games?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

100%. I think it's not even a question. Is uh his on-off splits, if you look at the Knicks on off splits, they're just unreal. And their defense is like significantly better with him on the floor, too, which is really remarkable to see. Um, but yeah, he has to be the MVP right now. I do think Brunson's a like a Brunson burner game away from uh I think he'd be the sentimental favorite. Um but it I was talking about this with a friend uh the other day that it's a great problem to have, but man, in my heart of hearts, because Brunson really built this thing, I would love for him to be finals MVP. Like it doesn't matter, right? KD KD was finals MVP, Iguidala was finals MVP, everyone knew it was Curry's team. And so I think I think that's the same thing here. I think Kat Yes, definitely the the the finals MVP. And the difference is too, it's it's interesting because it's they've been beating people in different ways. In the Cavs series, he could just stand at the top and he was throwing the ball over everybody. And in in this series, he can't do the same thing against Wemby. So I think they're like adjusting and he's he's playing in a different way where he's taking people off the dribble and going to the hole. And if they ever switch and he gets a castle on him, this is something that's new for me with Kat 2. I was always frustrated that I remember watching a game where Marcus Smart, who's I knew he's a great defender, boys, he's 6'4, would like push Kat off the block and he couldn't get positioned. And now I don't see that happening. Like he's a little guy on him, and it's like mouse in the house, like give me the ball, let's go. And that's really awesome and incredible to see. So um he's really he's really really impactful. The the other thing I I think I would just add about Kat is um if you try to shut Kat or Brunson down, the other Knicks are reliable scorers. So if you shut Ant down, you have to hope that one of those guys has a career night. But I think if you shut Brunson down or if you shut Kat down, you have like OG can drop 20 on you any night, Bridges and 20 any given night, Hart when he actually is not afraid to shoot the ball, could drop 15 to 20 a night. Um it's pretty it's a pretty well-rounded team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Yeah, I think for Wolves fans, you you know the comp in that is Jaden should be OG. Like essentially that's what you're hoping. You know, he's a 6'8, 6'9 long defender who can it's just he's Jaden hasn't always been the most reliable, consistent shooter. Like he for most of the year shot over 40% from three, and then he just completely went in the tank in the playoffs and struggled from three, and that hurt him a lot. But um yeah, I mean that's the thing, but they they all kind of know their role and they play off each other. You know, they have continuity, which isn't always common in the NBA either. Like they have um some real continuity, and it's just um it's it's fun to watch. Off the bench, Robinson, like he's a guy that I've kind of advocated for, but he's playing the cornet minutes, so it's not like he has to come in and And you know, this is again going back to the Wolves series against the Spurs. It was like this weird matchup where you had Rudy out there with Wemby. And then after that, they tried to match him with Cornet. But, you know, your minutes now the Knicks have a shooting big man in the Wemby minutes, which is what you needed. And that's why I think a lot of fans are frustrated they wouldn't start Nas in the playoffs, even though that was obviously the move you had to make. Um and the Knicks just they have that and they have enough shooting and they have enough depth. And um, I think the biggest thing to me though is you you know, Brunson, because those guards don't bother him. I mean, they're really good defenders, they're physical, they're Harper and Castle, yeah, even Vassell. I mean, they're just great defenders all over, and it doesn't matter to Brunson. He gets to his spot, he plays off two feet, he shot fakes, he pivots, he does everything he needs to do, and he still makes the toughest shots you can imagine. And so, yeah, the shooting numbers percentage-wise aren't great, but with him, it's just can you get me to the fourth quarter, baby?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah, well, and to your point, like the gravity of of Brunson is what really matters. And so, um, do you remember they used to call him the Iverson assist where it's like he'd just drive and take on two or three guys and put it on the glass, and the big man would get it, like you know, the rattle or somebody would get it and like just slam it down. Yeah, there's no man of that. Like Brunson, they're trying to take Brunson away. So they're doubling him at any given time. They're switching everything and like you know, you know, really blasting towards him. Um, and so it's creating for other people, even when they're doing that. And uh, we actually had this conversation with like in the fourth quarter the other day, everyone was saying we should, we should, uh, we should be running all the offense through Katmore. The way those guards are playing and pressuring the ball, it's not that easy to just hand the ball to Cat. It's not like you're getting into half court unmolested. Um, the it's it their Spurs are playing really physical defense and making it difficult to move the ball. And so having a guy like Brunson who's calm under that is is really, really critical. But I am waiting for one of his games because I he's a really efficient player, and seeing him shoot 19 to 56 so far is kind of shocking.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

Yeah, the Iverson assist thing is huge too, like you said, because Wemby's out there blocking, trying to block every shot. Um, and it's what happens when Josh Hart gets 15 rebounds, right? Like um, again, OG and Hart are gonna attack the glass, and that's what they're out there to do. So if your shot blocker is vacating the area, you have to punish the Spurs, and the Knicks are able to do it just mostly with effort, but they have the guys that want to do that kind of stuff. Um, and I think uh what we saw with some of these other teams is you know, I think OKC did has some guys like that as well, but the Wolves kind of lack that junkyard dog mentality from you know multiple guys. They have it with Dante, yeah, Jaden at times, but not consistently enough like the Knicks guys do. And I think that's just um, you know, you you talked about this before we started, but how the team was built, like it just none of these starters at least were drafted by the Knicks, but they brought in these pieces that just fit so nicely together.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Yeah, yeah. The only the I feel like uh at the if if you go back and look at the time of the trade, at the time of the acquisition, I can't really think of one where everyone thought, oh my god, that is unbelievable acquisition. Cat, there were questions about cat. Um, when we got Josh Hart, it was for Cam Reddish, who still had an NBA future at the time, potentially. So it was a bit of a gamble. No one really thought much of that one. Mikhail Bridges, everyone talks about the five picks that they gave up for him. Um Brunson, many people panned that and said that we overpaid significantly for backup point guard. Um, who else? Landry Shaman was a journeyman. Yeah. Deuce, second round pick. Yeah. Mitch, second round pick. Um it's really been impressive to see them develop. And I think we have to give credit to Tibbs too. That's one of the things a lot of New York fans are talking about, too. Is like Tibbs may not get us to championship, but he he built the culture and he brought us, he helped bring us to this place, which is pretty incredible. So um Leon Rose, man, like incredible team building. If you're gonna give credit to Tibbs, you might have to give credit to Jay Wright at Villanova as well. Oh, yeah, definitely. Well, they tried to hire him. Like I think they I think they were trying to interview him and hire him, but uh he wasn't interested. But yeah, I mean it's incredible talking about that too. You know, a lot of people talk about Jalen Bronson the way he's so effective is because he plays off of two feet. And I don't know if you ever heard Jalen Brunson talk about like or Dante talk about practices at Villanova where they would just entire practices just working on like pivoting. And so um attention to detail is just so so critical and important.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

Jay Wright became one of my favorite college coaches, and it was because of how his teams play under control. I mean, another guy I would love to see the wolves maybe look at is Colin Gillespie. Like, there's just guys like that that know how to play, and um you know it's tough teaching young kids right now to do that stuff. They think the jump stops are boring, they think the pivoting is boring, and all this stuff. And man, you watch an NBA game and the elite players, uh teams like again. Josh Hart, is he a top 50 NBA player? No, but no, he's gonna help you in a title, man. And guys like that just matter so much, and it's fun to watch. And um, yeah, the other one that I was gonna ask you about is Mike Brown. Oh, yeah. Because, you know, been an NBA coach before, take or sorry, Mike Woodson. Uh Mike Woodson?

SPEAKER_01 27:46

No, Mike the current coach, Mike Brown.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Mike Brown, sorry, sorry, he's getting my mics uh mixed up, but like he was another one where you're kind of like, this guy's just hopping job to job, and like he hasn't. I mean, he got Cleveland to the finals, but I know that that's LeBron more than anything. Um, what's been the the Knicks fan perspective of Mike Brown and the job he's done? Because I honestly did not know that he would be able to coach a team to the NBA finals like this.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

I don't think we did either, to be honest with you. I think uh there was a love affair in the beginning because when the Knicks came out for the first, I think, month and a half or two months of the season, they were the most efficient and prolific offense in the NBA. And then they went into a really deep lull and they had this like two and nine stretch in the middle of the season that the the low point was the uh the like blowout loss on Christmas. Was it Christmas? No, Martin Luther King Day to Dallas Mavericks. Okay. Um, that just you know, we thought, what are we doing here? And then um, and then they started turning around and they started blowing teams out. And so then people started to like Mike Brown a little bit more, but there was a lot of questions, and um, they he couldn't figure out how to get Kat and Brunson to work really well together until the last month or two of the season. He was experimenting a lot. It's all paying off now. And I do think there was a moment in the Atlanta Hawks series because I think his substitutions, I think he outsmarted himself a little bit in game two and three when they lost. We turned we coughed the leads up. Um, but since then he's been absolutely incredible. One of the things I love about him is the uh the the self-deprecation and accountability he has. Like whenever he talks about cat, he just talks about, you know, I needed to change, I needed to adjust um to the player and and like what he can do. And and I think players really admire and like that a lot. So I have a friend who lives in Oakland, he's a massive Golden State Warrior fan, and he he texts me all the time just to say, you know, Mike Brown, I know he's an assistant here, but he was like a revered figure out out in Oakland. So um I think we got a really good one. And if you look at his track record, too, it I don't know enough about it, but I believe he might have uh fallen victim to some player, you know, dissent potentially, right? Like he coached LeBron for a bit. Sounded like he and De'Aaron Fox didn't didn't like necessarily see eye to eye, but the work that he did with those teams was really pretty pretty strong. So uh he's also got a mature team now. He's got like the the I think I looked at it the other day. I think the top seven-ish players for the Knicks are all within the age of like 28 to 30, 31. So they're all ready. Like they they're ready to win now. They're like, let's so I think the maturity of his team probably helps him to be successful, also.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Yeah, it it's always tough, I feel like in the NBA a little bit, like there's just so much talent, like if the how much is the players or the coach, and you know, you can nitpick timeouts called or you know, lineup changes or something, but you know, when things click, you gotta give credit to the coach because like he said, um, you know, when you're when you're you know willing to let go of your ego and and make it work and it does, like I think that's you know, that's a kudos to him because there's a lot of hard-headed, stubborn coaches. Uh, you know, he mentioned Tibbs, like there's one of them. Um but there's a lot of ways to do it, and so you know it's it's cool. Um, I think a lot of people are really just it's it's fun. Like I whether you're a Knicks fan or not, it's been a fun, fun to watch them. Um yeah, I honestly thought last year was kind of the year like they had the chance, and then you know, the crazy Halliburton shot against them that went 30 feet in the air, and they lose that series. And the Pacers were just on a heater. Um, this year I think their expectations might have dropped a little bit. Um, yeah, at least in my mind. And but this is kind of what we thought, or at least what I thought like the Knicks potential was last year, just took a year longer, but now they're here and two wins away from an NBA title, that's got to sound pretty good, man.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

It sounds incredible. And I I agree with you. The uh the the inconsistency this year, they earned the doubt, I think, going into the playoffs, but the way that they've showed up has been incredible. And um, I do think that that Halliburton loss um with the big bounce in the air, that just like after they coughed up that lead, I think that you see that sometimes now, right? Like old Knicks teams would have probably had that haunting their vision in game two recently, and instead they're like, We're winning this game, we're gonna go out and get this game. So I think there's an urgency. I saw it in McCall Bridges. I don't know if you saw his post-game interview, it was so awesome. So he had a great game too, and like they won the game and they interviewed him immediately after, and he's still got this like like serious, intense face on, and he's like shaking, he can't stand still, and they're asking him about it, and all he kept saying was like was like I gotta be better in the fourth quarter, I gotta be better in the fourth quarter. And he's just you're like, You're up 2-0. You just sold two games in in San Antonio, and all you're thinking about is like I'm gonna be better in the next game. Like, that is that like just inject that into a fan's veins. You're like, let's go.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Like, no one's that's the championship pedigree that I was saying earlier about not being happy with one win either. Now you're not happy with two, like that's how it is. Like it's I always tell my teams, I don't care wins and losses, I care how we play. So if we win and I didn't feel like we played well enough, that's that's not good enough. The standard is set, and it's yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

It's so great. And uh the other thing you think about there's so many little interesting great stories too. Like in game one, you know, you you feel like a scarred fan base, because I'm also a Jets fan, which is like painful. And so when Brunson in the first like quarter hurt his knee when Harrison Barnes flopped into his knee, and then like later he got his ankle rolled by Cornet or whatever it was. And I know they're incidental plays, it just happens, and and uh you're like, oh my god, is this how it ends? And then and then like he just comes back out. You don't even hear about it, like he's probably hurting pretty bad, right? And he's still he's still like fighting through everything, and so it's so cool to see all that stuff, and and um it's fun. You have a team you could root for one through like I mean down to 12, 10, all of the guys. I just love them all.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

Brunson's uh resurrecting the Willis Reed game every night from now on, I think.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Basically, he basically Yeah, I mean it's just it's just unbelievable. I mean, I don't know, so there's a legendary Walt Clyde Fraser is like a legendary Knicks announcer, and um he's been comparing, he keeps saying like he's very and I he's a one of those announcers, it's a great announcer because he's he's a homer, but he's willing to tell the team when they're not good, right? And uh what they have to do better, and so he's pretty honest. And he is just over the moon about this team saying that it reminds him of his his championship teams, which is pretty pretty high praise. So um it's pretty cool to see.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

Um, so there's some rumors of uh dignitaries being at the game tonight. Will Phil Jackson make a trip to New York for this?

SPEAKER_01 34:49

I'd like to see Oakley before Phil Jackson, I'll tell you that. Oakley, okay, okay. Yeah, Oakley. I'd like to see the Oakley remend with the uh with the New York Knicks.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

The Bulls Knicks series were too much. You can't get over the Phil Jackson.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Well, let's see how prescient this is, too, because I feel like I'm a little bit worried about the dignitary, quote unquote, showing up at Madison Square Garden, too, because I don't know if you've heard so that the it sounds like it's a disaster with security, and so all you know, the there's a chance if Knicks fans don't get in because of heightened security that maybe the tip-off doesn't have a full stadium, or you know, the Spurs bus isn't going to be driving in past the madness of that watch party that's out on 33rd Street, which is just incredible and intimidating, and all of those things. And so I hope, I hope, you know, it doesn't it doesn't impact the uh the home court advantage, but it's um it's pretty remarkable that uh we're even here to to be thinking about that right now.

SPEAKER_04 35:46

I am now starting to realize why you went to San Antonio because these prices at MSG are uh significantly out of control. Yeah, you you uh you could fly you and your son down there, pay for your tickets, and it still wouldn't be as much as one ticket probably into the game in New York.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Not even not even close. Not even close. I could have brought like all of our you know team from uh Saturday mornings probably in it. Yeah, and hotels were cheap. San Antonio is a cool town, and the thing about this series too is uh if we weren't the Spurs outside of this series, the Spurs backcourt is my favorite backcourt to watch in the NBA right now, other than the Knicks. I love Steph Castle, I loved him at UConn. I love Dylan Harper. I think he's just he's so smooth and uh really good player. Um they're tough. They're gonna be here for a long time, but um yeah. Don't remind me. Yeah, oh I know. Well, I know we we were talking about the Knicks thing, like the uh the the season and how like there's a progression of you, you know, you you next year you overcome adversity, like every year has been a further step for them so far. Um that's what I thought the Wolves were gonna do this year. I was hoping they were gonna come into the season saying, okay, we've tasted the Western Conference Finals and we haven't gotten far enough. Like, and but they don't take the regular season seriously enough. And I think the regular season either has to be you come out and you win like 65 games and show everybody who's who's the alpha, or you experiment all year. And I don't I don't really think either thing happened with the wolves. And and so I think um that's something I hope that they do next year.

SPEAKER_04 37:28

That's why they're not a serious team. That's why, like honestly, that that's not talent, it's because they don't have that. Everything we talked about with the Knicks, you know, even the Spurs and the Thunder, to me, they play away that is championship caliber. That you are there, you are winning games, you are not just giving away random January game. Because what you're gonna do in the playoffs is you're gonna give away a random game in the playoffs, and you can't do that, and not if you're serious. Uh and I think it starts at the top with with ant. Um, there's too many no-shows for him in the regular season, especially defensively. Um, but it's the whole group, you know. Outside of, I would honestly say Rudy and Dante were the only two that were consistently giving effort. And Rudy's tough because he only plays one end of the court, yeah. You know, and so when you when you give zero on offense, you have to be elite defensively. And you know, if he has a bad game defensively, then he's just almost unplayable. But you know, there's just too many nights of of that. And you know, all of this being said, if they're the wolves are fully healthy, they're probably going seven games with the Spurs team that is in the NBA finals, too.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

But yeah, well, well, the Spurs won seven games with the Thunder, but the Thunder were missing their second best player. Yeah, a top six rotation guy, seven rotation guy in AJ Mitchell. Yep. Um, and so I think that that's another another thing.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

But uh it is like that's a the the playoffs. There's a little luck involved with that, right? Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah. You gotta be healthy. And they're young, and maybe that's why they are healthy. But man, every time Wemby hits the deck, I think he looks like a deer that's gonna break his leg. Uh a deer on ice, you know. He just he's gangly, he's got limbs flying everywhere, and you're just like, and he's gonna get hurt someday. And it's not gonna be speaking of that.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Watch this tonight. Um my homer perception is that every time Wemby sets a pick, you can see his long gangly arms just like shoving somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Every single time.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

I don't know when that stopped being called, but to me that I don't understand that. But sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

No, that's it. Okay, so we're in agreement here. So that and um Dylan Harper, man, his defense on Brunson is physical as hell. Like he it's a guy in the in the like the pickup game where you're like, I don't even want to play anymore if you're gonna guard me like that. Like that kind of defense. Um, but uh I I feel like Brunson's taking the hits, but I do think that he's getting away with some some stuff there also that I would love. I I feel like if uh although maybe now it won't be as bad if like depending on what the crowds are like outside. I was saying in San Antonio that if the refs ref that game in New York like they did in San Antonio, I don't know if the refs get out of Madison Square Garden alive. We'll see how that we'll see how.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

We'll have to put Scott Foster on the on I don't I haven't even seen who the refs are today, but uh the extender. Yeah we'll see. I I I think part of it is Brunson is he's just older and he's sturdier, you know. The physicality of Harper might wear on you, but like I don't know that it wears on Brunson the way it would wear on yeah, you know, Ant or even Shay, to be honest. Like Shay's kind of wiry. Um, he's obviously taller, but he's not like super sturdy base. And I uh if anybody's gonna kind of withstand that, it's it's somebody like Brunson, who's East Coast guy, he's got the dog in him, and he's just not afraid of anybody, uh no matter how big.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

And I think he's got a flight tolerance for pain uh too. And um, well, you know, Perk calls him big body Brunson. Yeah, that's his favorite thing that favorite thing to say. The thing, the the one, the one weakness in Brunson's game, in my opinion, is um he is so confident and to your point, physical and tough, that he takes the challenge on, and sometimes it becomes about like I'm gonna destroy my man as opposed to destroy the team. And so that's the only time, once in a while he'll he'll flip back into that mindset, which is hard to want hard to argue you don't want that in your in your alpha player, but um that shows up sometimes and he's mitigated that significantly this playoffs, which has been really, really good to see because he can take us he can take us all the way. It's gonna be incredible if he can actually lead us to the championship too, because uh everybody in New York is already lining up for all the pundits right now, right? So Becky Hammond's like number one on the list right now because she's in for it after this one. We'll see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

That goes.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Um any so 2-0 right now. Is this a is this a four-gamer, or are you thinking we're uh there's still gonna be some fight here in the Spurs? What how you think about it?

SPEAKER_01 42:11

I'm assuming I'm assuming there's fight. I think uh I think one of two outcomes happens in game three. I think it's either um the Spurs let go of the rope and just, you know, because the Knicks come out and and like push them really hard through the first half, or uh, or I think the Spurs could sneak one out, right? I think I think the whole series can change then too. Um the thing that gives me confidence though is what you said about the championship mentality. Like everything I've seen is that the Knicks know the moment that they're in and they're gonna take advantage of it and not let it slip away. Because they play with their food too much during the regular season at times. I I don't see them doing that in the playoffs.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Yeah, if they if they win game three, I think I think they come out in game four and it's over. I think they're gonna be so loose and ready to go and just win it in front of their home crowd. Yeah, they could still do that with the gentleman's, you know, they lose one in San Antonio, but um they're just they're a professional team who is playing at a really high level.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

So well I think I don't know if it was the New Yorker or New York Times. There was an article that they published the other day, and the headline was Um Jalen Brunson is the reason that the New York Knicks forgot what it feels like to lose. And I was like, God, um may someone say that about us at some point in our yeah in our lives. Like 13 and 2 in the playoffs now? Is that right? No. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:39

Uh 14 and 2.4 2, yeah, 14 and 2 for all.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Yeah. 14 and 2 in the in the two games they lost, they lost by a combined two points.

SPEAKER_04 43:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Like that's a pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

That's a historic run. I mean, even considering, you know, maybe some of the you know Sixers upset, they were a seventh seed, and yeah. So you The six, the seven, and then the four, but it's not just that you won. It's not that you won four, two in all of them. It's that you're completely dominating these series and didn't think a lot of people didn't think I could continue in the finals, and here they are up to oh. And honestly, game one didn't play all that great and won by ten.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

And uh it's easy to do revisionist history, but a lot of people were picking the Hawks to upset the Knicks. Yeah. They're a tough matchup. Like they're a good team, they're a tough matchup. They're guards, their length, defensive prowess. The Sixers people were picking to upset the Knicks in certain instances, particularly because they just came off of beating the Celtics. Yeah. Well, the I don't know if every anyone, I don't know if anyone took the Cavs seriously fully. No, I don't think so either. Um, but the Spurs.

SPEAKER_04 44:51

Even with a 20-point lead in game one, I think uh you're right. Like you were there, but I was like, I don't think this one's over yet. You could just feel it. But the Spurs, yeah, they're the Spurs were different.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Spurs are a different animal, and they're doing they're not dominating them in the same way, but their their defense has been incredible to hold that offense to what they hold it to.

SPEAKER_04 45:11

Yeah. One of the things I I meant to talk about this earlier, but just quickly before we we jump here. But um one of the things I think that Towns and the Knicks do really well on Wemby is I've seen a lot of teams guard him on the initial drive, and then when Wemby shoots, they turn and they let him go and he gets a tip and rebound. Like he gets a lot of basketball. And what I've noticed with the Knicks is Towns half the time isn't even trying to rebound. As soon as Wemby shoots it, he's just blocking him out and like making sure he can't get that quick tip uh that he gets a lot. And and Robinson was doing it too. And actually, they bring a lot of times another guy in, yep, and and that's where Josh Hart gets rebounds and OG gets rebounds, and like these other guys are getting bored because they're the big guys aren't worried about them getting rebounds, and that just goes again to that unselfishness. But I think that's that's one of the noticeable things I've I've seen is that they're really trying not to let him get his own rebound off of this shot.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

I saw one shot, a photograph that struck me where there were if that that happened where I think Wemby shot and Landry Shamit was just facing you know Wemby getting in his way of getting the rebound just by by by being there. I think they send so you talk about Mike Brown. I think I think there's a lot of nuanced things Mike Brown is doing that are are like really impacting the game too, because we don't talk about New York's defense enough. Like it's been really pretty incredible along the way. And um OG and Mikhail Bridges had ups and downs in um you know defense, but OG's second team all defense this year. First time he's made all set you know all defense. Um he or first time I think he's he's an unbelievable defender. That's something we haven't seen a ton yet this series. He effectively guards Wemby. Like you can put OG on Wemby. So we haven't done like a small death lineup yet either. We can we can do that. Um there's a lot you can throw at it, but like the defense is what's unlocking a ton of this. And and I think Brunson is considered like a liability, but I think his defense is holding up a little bit better. He had five steals in game two.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

So I think I think I think his defense is holding up a little bit better. And with the with the like long, rangey athletic recovery, great help defense that they have right now, it allows Brunson to sort of float and like jump in passing lanes a little bit more versus just need to play this guy one-on-one. So that's been impressive. I do credit Mike Brown for like those kinds of schemes too.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

I agree. I I thought the same thing. I thought the Spurs would hunt Brunson and he would have a really hard time with Castle and Um Harper, uh, and De'Aaron Fox for that matter. But yeah, I think what they've been able to do um is kind of disrupt any flow, and that's uh generally the the other guy's defense, but you know, kind of starts with towns and OG and and bridges for sure. Like those guys are just great defenders. Josh Hart does he just does all the little things.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

I mean, I just love him, but well, I just uh I I I love Josh Hart too. He um I saw a stat that said something like he his his five points, six or six points, fifteen rebounds, six assist game was like the first or something like that since Bill Russell in the finals or something.

SPEAKER_04 48:27

Anytime your name is mentioned with Bill Russell, you're doing something right. Oh yeah, there it is. Yeah, there it is. All right, man.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

I'm gonna buy this year, it's gonna be crazy.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

Yeah, well, I'm I uh uh I'm happy for you, first of all. Like thank you. Very excited that you get to uh enjoy this finals run. It's been enjoyable uh playoffs so far, finals series. Looking forward to game three. Um I I gotta let you have the last word on the Knicks today, man.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Well, thank you. I if I get two things to say. One is if the Knicks can pull this off, I hope it gives inspiration and hope for Minnesota fans that we you we can do this. Um, and two, I need this so that I don't have a summer of Giannis rumors, also. Oh, yeah. That would be that would be ideal. Although he's going to Minnesota anyway, isn't he?

SPEAKER_04 49:18

No, yeah, we're already in the throes of that, but I don't think so. They don't have enough assets. So I'm I I'm on the anti-Giannis uh club as far as roster construction goes at this point with the Wolves. So yeah, we'll see what the summer brings. But the fact that the Wolves have to talk about offseason trades and you are enjoying the finals is uh something we all hope we can enjoy someday as well.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

It's nice. I hope we do. And and uh hopefully I'll see you at Summer League too. Uh you definitely will. I'll be there. All right, cool. Yep, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Of course. All right, go Knicks.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

All right, that's the show for today. Thanks to my guest, Nick Desarian, for joining, talking about the Knicks and his experience as a Knicks fan in the NBA Finals. Knicks lead the series 2-0 at the time of this recording. We'll see if they can hold home court and win game three and go up 3-0 on those San Antonio Spurs. Before I let you go, I do want to just quickly remind you if you want to follow along on the podcast on social media, Splash City Podcast on Instagram and Facebook and Blue Sky, subscribe on YouTube, and of course, give us a follow on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm your host, Steve Hartman, and this has been the Splash City Basketball Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Bag and then, bag and bag again. Whoa, whoa.